“Either the ICC will end its threats, or we will end the ICC,” U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio recently declared, as he announced American sanctions on the International Criminal Court. That extraordinary declaration might be dismissed as more over-the-top histrionics from the Trump administration.

However, it points to a growing tension between national and international law, between great powers and international organizations. On the one hand, President Trump earlier this year said, “I don’t need international law”; on the other, President Macron insisted, “Do we want to live under a state of affairs with a return to the law of the jungle—or do we want to live in a civilized international society?

Think of it as might-makes-right versus universal values.

Viviana Krsticevic and the Center for Justice and International Law are very much on the universal values side of the ledger. Under her leadership, CEJIL has helped bring more than 200 cases before the Inter-American human rights system on issues ranging from violence against women to climate, to human rights abuses and beyond.

Krsticevic’s work is about more than winning cases. Listen as she talks about using the law to change the systems that allowed those abuses to happen in the first place. Then tell us what you think in the comments below.

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ABOUT OUR GUEST

Viviana Krsticevic is the Executive Director of the Center for Justice and International Law (CEJIL). She is a founder and member of the GQUAL Campaign. She currently also serves as an expert on the Independent International Fact-Finding Mission on the Islamic Republic of Iran, established by the UN Human Rights Council. Through her litigation, advisory, and academic work, Ms. Krsticevic has contributed to the development of international human rights standards on key issues.

She has published in books and academic forums on topics including equality, women’s rights, democracy, international architecture, the climate emergency, and human rights defenders, among others. Viviana Krsticevic holds a law degree from the University of Buenos Aires, a master’s degree in Latin American Studies from Stanford University, and a Master of Laws (LL.M.) from Harvard Law School.